Am I the only one willing to overpay Hronek ?

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Interesting brief thoughts from Brian Burke this week on the success of the Canucks and their turnaround ... starts at the 1:12 mark.

 

"The big acquisition ... Quinn  Hughes is a superstar, no question, but the Hronek acquisition to me is the key to this whole thing. He's made their whole team better. And Rick Tocchet has done a great job coaching the group."

 

 

Half way through "why Canada hasn't won a cup since 1993" ... same drum i've been beating for a decade or so now "taxes",  "people don't realize the difference in taxes and how much of an impact that has " etc etc etc. 

 

An 8.5 player in the US, 10 here ...  "All no trade lists include the 7 Canadian city's - why?  Taxes ".      He mentions the Stamkos deal, this is when it became obvious to me as a fan this was a genuine problem.    The math itself,  the cup should be in Canada every 4 years or so.   It isn't and hasn't.    

 

Hronek.  Should be signing for around 50.   Either under 7 on an 8 year deal, or around 7 and change on a 7 year deal.   It will cost more.    We've seen this with Allvin and JBs deals.   MG managed to keep Luongo's cap way down because of front loading the crap out of it  and everyone else's with clauses, even support guys like Hansen had one.    Hronek and QHs as a pair costing 22-24% of the cap in a few years?   That's ridiculous, but likely what it will take.    

 

Edit; How to solve this?  Simple suggested the same thing before, Burke thinks this too, make it all after tax.   The Cap that is.   Canucks would have 96 or so to work with now, which would be the same as 83.5 in all the no state tax teams.     And no it wouldn't be that complicated.    Set a median per team based on their taxes before the start of each season.   Each teams cap is the same based on net pay.   The competitive advantages go beyond just salary negotiatons, no being able to draw from a pool of UFAs to make a run with MNTC available guys .... yikes.    

 

Players paycheque's get a lot lighter North of the border.   JT Miller ... 36.6 to 53%  more taxes       That's a lot of money even on a mid range deal (5.35 was it?  so 750k per year ... ouch, that's a lot of money even to these guys).  Not every player is ok with that.   Have to wonder if his clauses kicked in ... would that deal even be possible?   TB was on the precipice already ... JB best deal and one of the best ones all-time really.  

 

Allvin deserves GM of the year.   JR said a couple months in he mid-judged this market (used to PIT and before that CAR tax brackets) when it comes to signing guys.  

Edited April 12 by IBatch

[Dr. Crossbar]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Half way through "why Canada hasn't won a cup since 1993" ... same drum i've been beating for a decade or so now "taxes",  "people don't realize the difference in taxes and how much of an impact that has " etc etc etc. 

 

An 8.5 player in the US, 10 here ...  "All no trade lists include the 7 Canadian city's - why?  Taxes ".      He mentions the Stamkos deal, this is when it became obvious to me as a fan this was a genuine problem.    The math itself,  the cup should be in Canada every 4 years or so.   It isn't and hasn't.    

 

Hronek.  Should be signing for around 50.   Either under 7 on an 8 year deal, or around 7 and change on a 7 year deal.   It will cost more.    We've seen this with Allvin and JBs deals.   MG managed to keep Luongo's cap way down because of front loading the crap out of it  and everyone else's with clauses, even support guys like Hansen had one.    Hronek and QHs as a pair costing 22-24% of the cap in a few years?   That's ridiculous, but likely what it will take.    

 

Edit; How to solve this?  Simple suggested the same thing before, Burke thinks this too, make it all after tax.   The Cap that is.   Canucks would have 96 or so to work with now, which would be the same as 83.5 in all the no state tax teams.     And no it wouldn't be that complicated.    Set a median per team based on their taxes before the start of each season.   Each teams cap is the same based on net pay.   The competitive advantages go beyond just salary negotiatons, no being able to draw from a pool of UFAs to make a run with MNTC available guys .... yikes.    

 

Players paycheque's get a lot lighter North of the border.   JT Miller ... 36.6 to 53%  more taxes       That's a lot of money even on a mid range deal (5.35 was it?  so 750k per year ... ouch, that's a lot of money even to these guys).  Not every player is ok with that.   Have to wonder if his clauses kicked in ... would that deal even be possible?   TB was on the precipice already ... JB best deal and one of the best ones all-time really.  

 

Allvin deserves GM of the year.   JR said a couple months in he mid-judged this market (used to PIT and before that CAR tax brackets) when it comes to signing guys.  

 

Hronek: Given the increasing cap, if he comes in somewhere between 7 and 8 longer term, that won't be absurd given market value. Especially because of the taxes in Canada issue. That is actually making the case "for" a higher annual average. 

 

But that is the problem and reality in Canada, and if the Cup is ever going to come to Canada, we have to work within the problem unfortunately. And by that I mean, both organization and player. 

 

The fact of the matter is, to be a top team, we're going to have to spend on star and top players. If we want good defense, we're going to have to pay for it. The Canadian taxes only make it all the more difficult. So, like you say, the higher per year will look ridiculous but likely what it would take. At that point, ridiculous doesn't factor in ... it's just the reality of what is. The emotions within and associated with the word "ridiculous" can't change the reality of "what is", so you have to work with it.

 

My thing as far as solutions go ... and yours/Burke's solution is good ... there needs to be an acknowledgement of the problem and a will to change it. 

 

Agree, Allvin deserves GM of the year. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Hronek: Given the increasing cap, if he comes in somewhere between 7 and 8 longer term, that won't be absurd given market value. Especially because of the taxes in Canada issue. That is actually making the case "for" a higher annual average. 

 

But that is the problem and reality in Canada, and if the Cup is ever going to come to Canada, we have to work within the problem unfortunately. And by that I mean, both organization and player. 

 

The fact of the matter is, to be a top team, we're going to have to spend on star and top players. If we want good defense, we're going to have to pay for it. The Canadian taxes only make it all the more difficult. So, like you say, the higher per year will look ridiculous but likely what it would take. At that point, ridiculous doesn't factor in ... it's just the reality of what is. The emotions within and associated with the word "ridiculous" can't change the reality of "what is", so you have to work with it.

 

My thing as far as solutions go ... and yours/Burke's solution is good ... there needs to be an acknowledgement of the problem and a will to change it. 

 

Agree, Allvin deserves GM of the year. 

Yes they do.   This is the reality.  McDavid (and they have 6% less tax then we do) is taking home  less... less then Bobrovsky at 10.   I don't know why this isn't talked about more.   These goofy tax shelters that have come up don't help that much.   I've even seen on here "Brian Burke" said this (suggesting he said something that it was A OK, taxes aren't a big issue...  he certainly hasn't that's a bunch of false news; and as someone with accounting skills i'm not sure why this isn't a bigger deal )... well he certainly thinks that's why no cup has come to Canada since 1993.  And can see why, prior to the cap it was US and Canadian dollars after salary disclosure that was in contention.  It killed two Canadian franshices (and cost us Bure at a critical moment) and almost moved the Canucks to Seattle.   Wake up fans.    It might not matter for the uber rich hockey player, but the little guys and medium guys, who don't know if they are here for a couple years or maybe seven (league average) it's for sure a big deal.   And apparently for EP as well.    That deal in Florida or TB, or Dallas or Vegas is for sure a lot smaller, or pretty much all states aside from NY and CALI.  

Edited April 12 by IBatch

[Blue]

There was an agent on one of the main podcasts who said that there is ways around taxes in Canada and it isn't as big of deal as ppl think. It was JP Berry or one of those types. Now we have Brian Burke here saying its a big deal and a big problem for Canadian teams. I really have no idea where the truth is anymore.

 

There has to be a way of getting around this. All of the players should "live" in Florida on paper. Or have shell companies that their paychecks go to.  All the F1 drivers "live" in Monaco and pay no taxes. 

 

And yes. This whole thing is very pertinent to Hronek and all of the Euro players we have

Edited April 12 by Blue

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

There was an agent on one of the main podcasts who said that there is ways around taxes in Canada and it isn't as big of deal as ppl think. It was JP Berry or one of those types. Now we have Brian Burke here saying its a big deal and a big problem for Canadian teams. I really have no idea where the truth is anymore.

 

There has to be a way of getting around this. All of the players should "live" in Florida on paper. Or have shell companies that their paychecks go to.  All the F1 drivers "live" in Monaco and pay no taxes. 

It's as usual, somewhere in between.  There are tax savings measures that can bring down the tax rates for the high tax cities, but make no mistake about it, there's also tax savings strategies for places that already have low tax rates.  Proof is in the pudding, we just need to use our own eyes and compare salaries/cap hits in low tax cities vs high tax cities.  There's clearly a discrepancy.

[Blue]

I know what ppl are saying but it's bullshit. Hronek is the type of defensman that gets you to the playoffs over 82 games. Zadorov is money in the playoffs. You need both. 

 

 

[Hairy Kneel]

On 5/4/2024 at 1:46 PM, Blue said:

I know what ppl are saying but it's bullshit. Hronek is the type of defensman that gets you to the playoffs over 82 games. Zadorov is money in the playoffs. You need both. 

 

 

That don't make no sense. 

[DisgruntledNucksFan]

Zadorov is more important. End of discussion 

[DisgruntledNucksFan]

We could’ve kept them both if we didn’t give petey 11.8 …….. 

[Gurn]

8 hours ago, DisgruntledNucksFan said:

We could’ve kept them both if we didn’t give petey 11.8 …….. 

Petey signed for $11.6- does that mean we get to keep both D men?

also we didn't 'give' Petey anything, they came to a negotiated agreement.

[chris12345]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:14 PM, HKSR said:

It's as usual, somewhere in between.  There are tax savings measures that can bring down the tax rates for the high tax cities, but make no mistake about it, there's also tax savings strategies for places that already have low tax rates.  Proof is in the pudding, we just need to use our own eyes and compare salaries/cap hits in low tax cities vs high tax cities.  There's clearly a discrepancy.

I think RCAs help.

 

The other question is whether or not some players are even residents.

 

I think weather and housing plays a role too. Even though these guys make a lot of money they consider it.

[JeremyCuddles]

12 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

That don't make no sense. 

It makes perfect sense. Hronek is the Mitch Marner of defenseman. So we should overpay him. Wait, no. That doesn't make sense.

[Blue]

Hroneks new contract will turn out like JT Millers. Most fans will hate it. And experts on Twitter will be making wise cracks about it. And they will all eat crow. 

[HOFsedins]

13 minutes ago, Blue said:

Hroneks new contract will turn out like JT Millers. Most fans will hate it. And experts on Twitter will be making wise cracks about it. And they will all eat crow. 

Are you really comparing JT Miller to Hronek? L.o.l. Hronek has proven nothing since we aquired him. Whereas J.T has been our best player since we aquired him. 

[Blue]

5 minutes ago, HOFsedins said:

Are you really comparing JT Miller to Hronek? L.o.l. Hronek has proven nothing since we aquired him. Whereas J.T has been our best player since we aquired him. 

 

Whoosh. One is a defensman. One is a forward. But I can still compare what the fanbase and media is saying about their value and what management will do. And in this case , ppl are talking about dumping him for a 2nd and garbage like that. 

 

Oh and if you don't remember the pre Tocchet Miller then so be it. I don't have the energy to go through it all. If you don't remember the keep Horvat , trade Miller narrative , so be that too. And the locker-room cancer narrative. And the worst contract next to Huberdeau narrative. And the get a 7th rounder for him narrative. And the almost trade to Pittsburgh ect ect etc 

[HOFsedins]

18 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

Whoosh. One is a defensman. One is a forward. But I can still compare what the fanbase and media is saying about their value and what management will do. And in this case , ppl are talking about dumping him for a 2nd and garbage like that. 

 

Oh and if you don't remember the pre Tocchet Miller then so be it. I don't have the energy to go through it all. If you don't remember the keep Horvat , trade Miller narrative , so be that too. And the locker-room cancer narrative. And the worst contract next to Huberdeau narrative. And the get a 7th rounder for him narrative. And the almost trade to Pittsburgh ect ect etc 

Why are you bringing up all the rumours to justify what you are saying? YOU said Hronek's new contract will end up like Miller's. What are you basing that off of? I am saying he has proven nothing. He can't even run his own pairing and you want to overpay for him? All Im saying is if he wants close to 8M, I hope he doesn't get it from us. Not quite sure why you are willing to overpay for him...

 

FWIW I have always wanted to keep Miller. Has always been the engine for our offence. He has matured with his emotions but his performance was always there. Ain't it funny how we traded our "captain" and all of a sudden we are a top team in the league now? Wonder who the locker room cancer in the room was?

Edited Wednesday at 11:45 PM by HOFsedins

[Blue]

Ppl sure have short memories. Most of the fanbase wanted to trade Miller and thought his new contract was a distaster. The same thing is happening now w/ Hronek. All we need is a 7.5 million contract and the whole fanbase and media wise asses will scream..and they will be wrong. Just like they were with Miller. 

 

Who exactly are we replacing Hronek with ? Trade for Bear again ? Because that worked so well. 

[Blue]

1 hour ago, HOFsedins said:

Why are you bringing up all the rumours to justify what you are saying? YOU said Hronek's new contract will end up like Miller's. What are you basing that off of? I am saying he has proven nothing. He can't even run his own pairing and you want to overpay for him? All Im saying is if he wants close to 8M, I hope he doesn't get it from us. Not quite sure why you are willing to overpay for him...

 

FWIW I have always wanted to keep Miller. Has always been the engine for our offence. He has matured with his emotions but his performance was always there. Ain't it funny how we traded our "captain" and all of a sudden we are a top team in the league now? Wonder who the locker room cancer in the room was?

I haven't got the season end totals yet.

 

But Hronek was tracking to be second in the NHL in 5 on 5 scoring among defenceman.  He leads the Canucks in 5/5 ice time. He will be one of the +/- leaders in the league. (third place on RHD) And up there in any RHD category. 

 

He had more minutes than Quinn Hughs in yesterday's game ffs. Devouring minutes and not looking like Myers or Cole most of the time. 

Edited Thursday at 12:51 AM by Blue

[HOFsedins]

29 minutes ago, Blue said:

I haven't got the season end totals yet.

 

But Hronek was tracking to be second in the NHL in 5 on 5 scoring among defenceman.  He leads the Canucks in 5/5 ice time. He will be one of the +/- leaders in the league. (third place on RHD) And up there in any RHD category. 

 

He had more minutes than Quinn Hughs in yesterday's game ffs. Devouring minutes and not looking like Myers or Cole most of the time. 

Let me help you out.

 

First 44GP - 3G 33A

Last 37GP - 2G 10A

Playoffs - 0G 0A 

 

He played more minutes than Hughes yesterday night? Really?

 

Hughes TOI - 25:12

Hronek TOI - 21:49

 

Get your facts right.

 

At the end of the day, he is being carried by Hughes wether you like it or not. What's more alarming is that he is known to cool off during the 2nd half of the season just like he did in Detroit. Imagine Hughes wasn't his partner. Well we've seen how that pans out already. So yes you are the only one that is willing to OVERPAY for Hronek.

 

Also, Myers is having a great playoffs thus far, far better than Hronek. Had a great regular season as well NOT playing with Hughes.

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:13 AM by HOFsedins

[Blue]

15 hours ago, HOFsedins said:

Let me help you out.

 

First 44GP - 3G 33A

Last 37GP - 2G 10A

Playoffs - 0G 0A 

 

He played more minutes than Hughes yesterday night? Really?

 

Hughes TOI - 25:12

Hronek TOI - 21:49

 

Get your facts right.

 

At the end of the day, he is being carried by Hughes wether you like it or not. What's more alarming is that he is known to cool off during the 2nd half of the season just like he did in Detroit. Imagine Hughes wasn't his partner. Well we've seen how that pans out already. So yes you are the only one that is willing to OVERPAY for Hronek.

 

Also, Myers is having a great playoffs thus far, far better than Hronek. Had a great regular season as well NOT playing with Hughes.

So you think he's a Czech version of Ethan Bear or something ? 

 

Hronek finished the year with more points than :

 

Moritz Sieder

Macvoy

Eckholm

Chychrin

Burns 

 

Now who in the living fuck are you going to pick up for the right side, for between 7-8 million that will be even close to this ? 

 

Gassing up Myers because he's playing less minutes this year because Hronek is on the team is hilarious. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:42 PM by Blue

[MeanSeanBean]

16 hours ago, Blue said:

Ppl sure have short memories. Most of the fanbase wanted to trade Miller and thought his new contract was a distaster. The same thing is happening now w/ Hronek. All we need is a 7.5 million contract and the whole fanbase and media wise asses will scream..and they will be wrong. Just like they were with Miller. 

 

Who exactly are we replacing Hronek with ? Trade for Bear again ? Because that worked so well. 

Bear catching strays is ridiculous. Dude was totally fine next to Quinn for his level of play. His injury was the reason he was not resigned, and even then he earned a bigger contract with term elsewhere. 

[Blue]

44 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Bear catching strays is ridiculous. Dude was totally fine next to Quinn for his level of play. His injury was the reason he was not resigned, and even then he earned a bigger contract with term elsewhere. 

He wasn't a legit minute munching top pair defensman. I liked Bear and wanted to keep him. 

 

Hronek was this management's biggest acquisition. They are not going to part with him. 

[Junkyard Dog]

I question Hronek’s ability to carry his own pairing. Can he elevate someone like Hughes has elevated him?

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

He wasn't a legit minute munching top pair defensman. I liked Bear and wanted to keep him. 

 

Hronek was this management's biggest acquisition. They are not going to part with him. 

They are if he's asking too much money.

[Madskillz]

21 hours ago, HOFsedins said:

Let me help you out.

 

First 44GP - 3G 33A

Last 37GP - 2G 10A

Playoffs - 0G 0A 

 

He played more minutes than Hughes yesterday night? Really?

 

Hughes TOI - 25:12

Hronek TOI - 21:49

 

Get your facts right.

 

At the end of the day, he is being carried by Hughes wether you like it or not. What's more alarming is that he is known to cool off during the 2nd half of the season just like he did in Detroit. Imagine Hughes wasn't his partner. Well we've seen how that pans out already. So yes you are the only one that is willing to OVERPAY for Hronek.

 

Also, Myers is having a great playoffs thus far, far better than Hronek. Had a great regular season as well NOT playing with Hughes.

 

 

 

Hughes would be carrying every Dmen in the league besides Makar.  If he had a shitty Dmen he wouldn't be able to put up more points and be playing more in the dzone.

Edited Thursday at 10:21 PM by Madskillz