[REPORT] Canucks make contract offer to Filip Hronek

[AngryGoose]

pretty crazy he turned down the reported 8 year deal….not a big fan of that

[wai_lai416]

11 minutes ago, Komodo0921 said:

Have you looked at his Detroit stats?

His highest point total was 38 and his defensive numbers were terrible.

If I'm going off those, he's looking at more of a "show me" contract then 6.5.

so his following year 38 points 60 games +8 on a bad detroit team again doesn't exist or count right? that's literally the same pace as he had in vancouver this year.. so instead of taking the previous year.. u take his stats from 2 years ago instead because players don't improve year to year?

[Komodo0921]

8 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

so his following year 38 points 60 games +8 on a bad detroit team again doesn't exist or count right? that's literally the same pace as he had in vancouver this year.. so instead of taking the previous year.. u take his stats from 2 years ago instead because players don't improve year to year?

You brought up his Detroit career and, yes, for the most part, he was sub-par.

 

[wai_lai416]

14 minutes ago, Komodo0921 said:

You brought up his Detroit career and, yes, for the most part, he was sub-par.

 

so his 60 game 36 points prior to the trade is not part of his detroit career? so players are not allow to improve year over year? so a rookie if they have a bad season is trash coz he's never allowed to improve and will be forever bad?

[Komodo0921]

7 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

so his 60 game 36 points prior to the trade is not part of his detroit career? so players are not allow to improve year over year? so a rookie if they have a bad season is trash coz he's never allowed to improve and will be forever bad?

Hronek's not a rookie.

Not comparable.

[wai_lai416]

25 minutes ago, Komodo0921 said:

Hronek's not a rookie.

Not comparable.

so did he not improve? wait he's not allowed to according to u 

[The Lock]

On 5/3/2024 at 12:35 AM, Komodo0921 said:

Hronek's not a rookie.

Not comparable.

 

So basically you want to cherry pick the stats... anything you bring up is alright but anything that goes against what you think is "not comparable".

 

You clearly have your mind made up without and are not willing to be persuaded otherwise. Just know that being bull-headed does not make you correct.

Edited May 6 by The Lock

[The Duke]

I had Hronek as a slam dunk but now I’m curious what Allvin will do here. I still think it’s likely he’s back, but he hasn’t done anything to earn that huge contract he’s after.  Of course, one big series could change that.
 

Going to be interesting to see what both sides do when it’s all said and done. 

[N4ZZY]

4 hours ago, The Duke said:

I had Hronek as a slam dunk but now I’m curious what Allvin will do here. I still think it’s likely he’s back, but he hasn’t done anything to earn that huge contract he’s after.  Of course, one big series could change that.
 

Going to be interesting to see what both sides do when it’s all said and done. 

I think he signs his QO for one year, and then they look for a trade partner next season (or during the summer). Allvin and Rutherford's not signing Hronek to 8M over 8 years, or something ridiculous like that. If they did that, that would be one of the worse contracts this current management has signed. 

 

Yeah, I guess it really depends on if he's able to produce in this current series against the Oilers. If he does, then it probably changes the negotiations again. But Hronek in the Nashville series hasn't played well offensively or defensively. So if he keeps that level of play up, then I'm not sure how management is willing to dish out 8M for him. 

 

There are reports that the Canucks management are wanting to resign Lindholm. Someone's gotta go no? How do they sign Zadorov, Myers, Blueger, Lindholm, Joshua? 

Out of that group there, I can see Myers and Blueger taking less to stay. Everyone else will be looking for a raise. 

 

[LillStrimma]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:45 AM, Komodo0921 said:

Have you looked at his Detroit stats?

His highest point total was 38 and his defensive numbers were terrible.

If I'm going off those, he's looking at more of a "show me" contract then 6.5.

He has played at 0,5ppg rate his whole career.

what is the price for a RHD 1/2 RHD that put up 0,5ppg as average? 

[LillStrimma]

On 5/1/2024 at 12:11 AM, HKSR said:

Nah, if he truly is a 25+25 guy, he will deserve $5M+.  Timing is interesting because Hoglander will be an RFA the final year of Garland's contract.  Could be the time to trade Garland and re-sign Hoglander using that money.

Remember Motte, also a feisty player that could have played a similar role as Hogz and Garland.

It seems the NHL is buzzing with that kind of players. I don’t have the experiance to know by myself. 

Good players that are kept at a low salary and just wait for an oppurtunity to show what they can do in a more free role with the right players.

we can let Bains, Karlsson, Sasson and Räty come up and be cheap players just as Hogz and Podz are now.

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Zadorov is outplaying Hronek in the playoffs but is probably going to make half of what Hronek gets. What a world.

[HKSR]

3 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Remember Motte, also a feisty player that could have played a similar role as Hogz and Garland.

It seems the NHL is buzzing with that kind of players. I don’t have the experiance to know by myself. 

Good players that are kept at a low salary and just wait for an oppurtunity to show what they can do in a more free role with the right players.

we can let Bains, Karlsson, Sasson and Räty come up and be cheap players just as Hogz and Podz are now.

 

Motte never did and never has put up the offensive numbers of Hoglander or Garland.  Being feisty is one thing.  Having the offensive instinct and ability is another.  Not every hard working bottom 6 guy in the entire league can put up 25 goals and 40 to 50 points.

[Bob Long]

34 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Motte never did and never has put up the offensive numbers of Hoglander or Garland.  Being feisty is one thing.  Having the offensive instinct and ability is another.  Not every hard working bottom 6 guy in the entire league can put up 25 goals and 40 to 50 points.

 

We had peak Motte. In hindsight he should have taken the deal we offered but sometimes agents get it wrong.

[LillStrimma]

49 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Motte never did and never has put up the offensive numbers of Hoglander or Garland.  Being feisty is one thing.  Having the offensive instinct and ability is another.  Not every hard working bottom 6 guy in the entire league can put up 25 goals and 40 to 50 points.

The points he got back then he did it on his own. 
If he had the same oppurtunity like Suter, Lafferty, PDG, Hogz etc to play in a top six role I don’t believe he would have done worse.

[BPA]

Pretty sure TO will be trading Marner cuz that team needs a makeover.

 

IF Hronek deal can’t be reached, maybe trade him to TO.

 

Hronek + Mik

for

1st 2024 + Knies + 3rd 2026

 

I would like Nylander but I think he’s untouchable.

[HKSR]

30 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

The points he got back then he did it on his own. 
If he had the same oppurtunity like Suter, Lafferty, PDG, Hogz etc to play in a top six role I don’t believe he would have done worse.

He did spend some time in the top 6 with Vancouver.  Nevertheless remember Hoglander has put up 20+ goals playing the majority of the year on the 4th line.  Garland also putting up solid numbers in a 3rd line role all year.  Offensively Motte is neither of these guys.  Not every single player is offensively gifted.  That's where natural talent comes into play.  

[canucks curse]

13 minutes ago, BPA said:

Pretty sure TO will be trading Marner cuz that team needs a makeover.

 

IF Hronek deal can’t be reached, maybe trade him to TO.

 

Hronek + Mik

for

1st 2024 + Knies + 3rd 2026

 

I would like Nylander but I think he’s untouchable.

I agree with moving Hronek 

sign Zads, Tanev, Cole, Myers 

we have D Petey and Wally coming 

plus juulsen 

 

 

[RWJC]

24 minutes ago, HKSR said:

He did spend some time in the top 6 with Vancouver.  Nevertheless remember Hoglander has put up 20+ goals playing the majority of the year on the 4th line.  Garland also putting up solid numbers in a 3rd line role all year.  Offensively Motte is neither of these guys.  Not every single player is offensively gifted.  That's where natural talent comes into play.  

Exactly. If he was as much a diamond in the rough as some people project, he’d be a top 6 F somewhere in the league by now. Players who belong in that role eventually make their way there, despite roster depth or other circumstance in their way. No offense to the guy, but he’s already established a niche role in the league and has made a career out of that. Have to be satisfied for Motte that way.

 

With regards to Hronek, there is nothing wrong with giving him his QO and seeing if he can play above that. My guess is he won’t, but he will still have serious value around the league. Use that to our advantage. Give him the reigns for 2nd pairing next year (if we can find a suitable partner for QH in offseason) and see if he can up his value to this club in relation to his contract. I’m wary. Some players seem to really bust out that much more in contract year and subsequently come back to earth the following ones.

A 1 year QO will burn his RFA status and the following season he will be UFA so he may have a career year in lead up.

Safest bet is to qualify him and squeeeeze the value out of that deal. If he can command the 2nd pairing and continue or improve on his overall game/production, then yeah we might have a gem that is worth a long term high $ deal.

if not, we still have an asset that will be prized on the trade market by any team who needs his services more than we do (by that time). It’s a no lose proposition, but necessity would be to truly assess his value away from QH before locking him in long term here.

 

All of that said, it would not surprise me in the least if he’s playing hurt right now. He’s physical, is always in the other team’s face and has probably suffered a lingering injury somewhere along the way because of it.

Edited May 7 by RWJC

[qwijjibo]

31 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Exactly. If he was as much a diamond in the rough as some people project, he’d be a top 6 F somewhere in the league by now. Players who belong in that role eventually make their way there, despite roster depth or other circumstance in their way. No offense to the guy, but he’s already established a niche role in the league and has made a career out of that. Have to be satisfied for Motte that way.

 

With regards to Hronek, there is nothing wrong with giving him his QO and seeing if he can play above that. My guess is he won’t, but he will still have serious value around the league. Use that to our advantage. Give him the reigns for 2nd pairing next year (if we can find a suitable partner for QH in offseason) and see if he can up his value to this club in relation to his contract. I’m wary. Some players seem to really bust out that much more in contract year and subsequently come back to earth the following ones.

A 1 year QO will burn his RFA status and the following season he will be UFA so he may have a career year in lead up.

Safest bet is to qualify him and squeeeeze the value out of that deal. If he can command the 2nd pairing and continue or improve on his overall game/production, then yeah we might have a gem that is worth a long term high $ deal.

if not, we still have an asset that will be prized on the trade market by any team who needs his services more than we do (by that time). It’s a no lose proposition, but necessity would be to truly assess his value away from QH before locking him in long term here.

 

All of that said, it would not surprise me in the least if he’s playing hurt right now. He’s physical, is always in the other team’s face and has probably suffered a lingering injury somewhere along the way because of it.

A 1 year deal walks him to UFA.  I doubt Vancouver will be out of the playoff race by the trade deadline so trading him for a haul is unlikely.  You're essentially signing him for a year and taking a significant chance that he walks for free 

[LillStrimma]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

He did spend some time in the top 6 with Vancouver.  Nevertheless remember Hoglander has put up 20+ goals playing the majority of the year on the 4th line.  Garland also putting up solid numbers in a 3rd line role all year.  Offensively Motte is neither of these guys.  Not every single player is offensively gifted.  That's where natural talent comes into play.  

One thing you don’t recall here is that the team were much worse.

we rely on third/fourth line nowadays.

Mottes line were often pushed back so he scored on a counterattack almost alone

Now we have a defense that can help the fourth line and now Motte probably got a lot more points.

Think of Gudbranson and Pouliot holding the fort

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, LillStrimma said:

One thing you don’t recall here is that the team were much worse.

we rely on third/fourth line nowadays.

Mottes line were often pushed back so he scored on a counterattack almost alone

Now we have a defense that can help the fourth line and now Motte probably got a lot more points.

Think of Gudbranson and Pouliot holding the fort

Motte's best season was 15 points.  You're basically saying he would nearly triple his offensive output if he were on the Canucks 3rd or 4th line today.  Doesn't that seem like a bit of a stretch?

Edited May 7 by HKSR

[Jester13]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

He did spend some time in the top 6 with Vancouver.  Nevertheless remember Hoglander has put up 20+ goals playing the majority of the year on the 4th line.  Garland also putting up solid numbers in a 3rd line role all year.  Offensively Motte is neither of these guys.  Not every single player is offensively gifted.  That's where natural talent comes into play.  

Motte is a candidate for most overrated Canucks player of all time. 

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, qwijjibo said:

A 1 year deal walks him to UFA.  I doubt Vancouver will be out of the playoff race by the trade deadline so trading him for a haul is unlikely.  You're essentially signing him for a year and taking a significant chance that he walks for free 

Yes that’s what I mentioned and is my point.

 

IF he’s wanting 8 mill x 8 and NTC/NMT right now, and that’s above the threshold of what mgmt feels he’s worth, then take his QO and make the most of his value in whatever capacity you have to.

 

We moved on from Bo in season and using one of those assets picked up Hronek out of that deal, remember?
Arguably Hronek now will have more value to many more clubs than Horvat would have. 

The point is to maintain control for the short term that you can plan around cap wise and adjust your targets towards. 

A 1 year QO will likely be around 7.5-8 anyway. If we do that we still have time to negotiate a longer term extension during next season, should mgmt decide they want to retain him and he proves he’s worth more than that contract.

 

Youre talking about 1 player.

I’m talking about the longer term health of this club and structuring it so that we can remain competitive while also allocating $ for whom we can afford and are imperative to retain. 
 

We just shelled out assets for Lindholm and Zadorov and were also at the forefront of the Guentzel pursuit which would have meant even more out the door. That’s the risk. It’s no different with Hronek. He’s a great player but question is still out as to whether he’s worth 8mill+ on a longterm deal HERE.

 

After this RFA deal, he’s going to be pushing for big coin. I’d love to see a 3 year interim deal signed with him that gives us some flexibility but if it doesn’t transpire, you make the best with what you can do. We have a lot of roster holes to fill after this season.

Ppl claiming to call up this guy and that guy to fill spots, but those guys aren’t the guys that are necessarily ready and can carry an NHL load that will again make us a playoff team, imho. I think the safest bet out of anyone will be Podz and he’ll likely be a 3rd liner at best next year. More than likely 4th.

 

Look at our cap structure going forward, the extensions, the OEL penalty…an overpriced Hronek would only compound a complex situation and start to make us a top heavy team which is unsustainable.

The reason we have a successful D this year is because we were able to spread the dollars around and have a strong, balanced and experienced back end. The cost of one Hronek next year could equate to the the same cost of having a Zadorov and a Soucy (as an example - I realize he’s under contract).  I would rather have the depth, capability and balance that two large, mobile, experienced NHL defensemen provide than one that hasn’t single-handedly proven his value on OUR club yet outside of playing with this years Norris trophy winner, and arguably one of the top 3 D in this league. Again, we have not tested his value as a leader on his own line. Sure he’s proven capable in DET, but if we’re going to lock him in longterm and big $, you have to be certain that the player is independently worth that value.

Edited May 7 by RWJC

[qwijjibo]

8 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Yes that’s what I mentioned and is my point.

 

IF he’s wanting 8 mill x 8 and NTC/NMT right now, and that’s above the threshold of what mgmt feels he’s worth, then take his QO and make the most of his value in whatever capacity you have to.

 

We moved on from Bo in season and using one of those assets picked up Hronek out of that deal, remember?
Arguably Hronek now will have more value to many more clubs than Horvat would have. 

The point is to maintain control for the short term that you can plan around cap wise and adjust your targets towards. 

A 1 year QO will likely be around 7.5-8 anyway. If we do that we still have time to negotiate a longer term extension during next season, should mgmt decide they want to retain him and he proves he’s worth more than that contract.

 

Youre talking about 1 player.

I’m talking about the longer term health of this club and structuring it so that we can remain competitive while also allocating $ for whom we can afford and are imperative to retain. 
 

We just shelled out assets for Lindholm and Zadorov and were also at the forefront of the Guentzel pursuit which would have meant even more out the door. That’s the risk. It’s no different with Hronek. He’s a great player but question is still out as to whether he’s worth 8mill+ on a longterm deal HERE.

 

After this RFA deal, he’s going to be pushing for big coin. I’d love to see a 3 year interim deal signed with him that gives us some flexibility but if it doesn’t transpire, you make the best with what you can do. We have a lot of roster holes to fill after this season.

Ppl claiming to call up this guy and that guy to fill spots, but those guys aren’t the guys that are necessarily ready and can carry an NHL load that will again make us a playoff team, imho. I think the safest bet out of anyone will be Podz and he’ll likely be a 3rd liner at best next year. More than likely 4th.

 

Look at our cap structure going forward, the extensions, the OEL penalty…an overpriced Hronek would only compound a complex situation and start to make us a top heavy team which is unsustainable.
 

I was just addressing your statement that if he signs a 1 year deal and doesn't live up to what he thinks he worth that he'd nr a valuable trade asset.  If he's on a 1 year deal where he's ufa after he doesn't really have trade value to a Vancouver team who is in a playoff race.  They'd keep him as an own rental and lose him for free.