[DEBATE] Should we go all in?

[Elias Pettersson]

We just beat one of the Stanley Cup favourites in back to back games.  Our team looks good.  Our team defence looks great.  Our goaltending looks all worldly.  We are still missing Mikheyev, Blueger and Soucy.  Add those 3 players to the lineup and we are 100% a playoff team.

 

So, the question becomes how far can we go with this current team?  Can we win a round in the playoffs?  With our goaltending and team defence I would say yes.  So, how far do we really want to go?  Can we actually improve our team enough this year to win it all?

 

I look at this team and see two complete lines:

 

Kuzmenko    Pettersson     Mikheyev

Joshua         Blueger          Lafferty

 

I wouldn’t touch those lines.  1st line and 4th line are complete.  Our second line looks good too:

 

PDG     Miller    Boeser 

 

I like PDG and we usually need to have an Italian in the lineup.  However, in order to win it all we probably need an upgrade on him.

 

Our 3rd line is the biggest problem:

 

Beauvillier/Höglander    Suter     Garland

 

Our 3rd line is too small to be a powerful checking line and not good enough to be a true scoring line.  I like Suter, he is fine as a 3C but we need to upgrade the wingers.  Garland and Beauviller take up $9.1 million in cap space.  Oh my. That’s insane.  Imagine what we could get for $9.1 million?

 

How about our defence?  Hughes and Hronek are elite.  Ian Cole is very good defensively. Soucy is big and strong and will be great on the 3rd pairing in the playoffs.  That leaves Myers and Juulsen.  Juulsen is not an NHL defenceman. Myers is frustrating to watch but has the tools to be effective if he wants to be.

 

Hughes    Hronek

Cole         Myers

Soucy      Juulsen

 

In order to be a cup contender we definitely have to upgrade on Juulsen.  

 

And finally the goalies.  Yes, our backup goalie would be the starter in Edmonton.  We are good to go with the goalies.  We could win the cup with them.

 

Demko    DeSmith

 

So, do we go all in?  If so, what do we upgrade and how would that work?

 

For me, IF we want to go all in, we need at least 3 guys.  2 wingers and a Dman.  Guys I would target are as follows:

 

Lawson Crouse - perfect player to compliment Miller and Boeser and a major upgrade on PDG

Andrew Peeke - defensive Dman who can play up and down the lineup.  Massive upgrade on Juulsen

 

Other players I’d look at:

 

Trent Frederic

Brandon Carlo

Yakov Trenin

Alexis Lafreniere 

Nico Sturm

Garnet Hathaway

Kasperi Kapanen

Robert Bortuzzo

Mason Appleton

Dylan Demelo

 

What would it take to get some of these guys?  Would you give up the 2024 1st, Vasili Podkolzin, Nils Höglander?  

 

IMO, Jonathan Lekkerimaki and Tom Willander are untouchable.  Everyone else however could be on the table depending on the offer…

Edited October 15, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[joe-max]

Canucks lose 2 preseason games in a row: The sky is falling, fire everyone!!!

 

Canucks win 2 games in a row: Plan the parade, noone will ever beat us again!!!!

 

How about

?

[DownUndaCanuck]

1st + for a top 4 defenceman at the deadline like Hanifin or Pesce.

[DrJockitch]

We have been all in for the cup every year since 2011 appropriate or not. 
I like the structure but want to see more than 2 games against a good but very flawed lineup m

[NHL97OneTimer]

You guys need some sleep. lol.  The big takeaway is that this team is now looking organized for once.  They're committed in front of their goalie and their committed with 2 guys in on the forecheck.  Things we haven't seen in a while.  I think we're a playoff team if they can keep this up, but let's face it, they lose this last game more often than not when you consider which zones the play was in for the most part.

 

Defensively, this off-season was a definite improvement.  With all of that said, this team lacks depth still on defence.  Myers had some good plays but he also did not give me comfort when he was out there.  Juulson too.  But then you also need at least a couple of strong call-ups.  Lafferty had that great play but he also lost his defensive coverage on one of the goals.  We're still 2 good years of moves away from having sights on longer playoff runs in my opinion.  But at least we see a lot more hustle out there.

 

If the Canucks can get the trade they want for Garland, that will inch us closer, yes.

[tas]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I like PDG and we usually need to have an Italian in the lineup.  However, in order to win it all we probably need an upgrade on him.

 

you're not collecting pokemon cards, you're building a team. chemistry and understanding roles is far more important than individual talent. 

[Junkyard Dog]

I say wait until the first quarter of the season. 
 

 

[Dizzle]

[SV.]

With respect to Edmonton, it's hard to gauge anything when our team is their rival.  Form goes out the window during these games.

Vegas, Colorado, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Toronto, Boston are much better litmus tests.  Of course, let's see where we're at in January/February.

[SV.]

Actually, I'll come back to this and say the Canucks might have no choice but to go all-in before OEL's buyout takes a huge portion of money out of our structure.

[DrJockitch]

15 minutes ago, SV. said:

Actually, I'll come back to this and say the Canucks might have no choice but to go all-in before OEL's buyout takes a huge portion of money out of our structure.

That is around the time we should be working in Raty, Willander, Lekkerimaki, Bains so we should have some good young players on ELCs to fill the gap for the two years that the OEL penalty really pinches. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We just beat one of the Stanley Cup favourites in back to back games.  Our team looks good.  Our team defence looks great.  Our goaltending looks all worldly.  We are still missing Mikheyev, Blueger and Soucy.  Add those 3 players to the lineup and we are 100% a playoff team.

 

So, the question becomes how far can we go with this current team?  Can we win a round in the playoffs?  With our goaltending and team defence I would say yes.  So, how far do we really want to go?  Can we actually improve our team enough this year to win it all?

 

I look at this team and see two complete lines:

 

Kuzmenko    Pettersson     Mikheyev

Joshua         Blueger          Lafferty

 

I wouldn’t touch those lines.  1st line and 4th line are complete.  Our second line looks good too:

 

PDG     Miller    Boeser 

 

I like PDG and we usually need to have an Italian in the lineup.  However, in order to win it all we probably need an upgrade on him.

 

Our 3rd line is the biggest problem:

 

Beauvillier/Höglander    Suter     Garland

 

Our 3rd line is too small to be a powerful checking line and not good enough to be a true scoring line.  I like Suter, he is fine as a 3C but we need to upgrade the wingers.  Garland and Beauviller take up $9.1 million in cap space.  Oh my. That’s insane.  Imagine what we could get for $9.1 million?

 

How about our defence?  Hughes and Hronek are elite.  Ian Cole is very good defensively. Soucy is big and strong and will be great on the 3rd pairing in the playoffs.  That leaves Myers and Juulsen.  Juulsen is not an NHL defenceman. Myers is frustrating to watch but has the tools to be effective if he wants to be.

 

Hughes    Hronek

Cole         Myers

Soucy      Juulsen

 

In order to be a cup contender we definitely have to upgrade on Juulsen.  

 

And finally the goalies.  Yes, our backup goalie would be the starter in Edmonton.  We are good to go with the goalies.  We could win the cup with them.

 

Demko    DeSmith

 

So, do we go all in?  If so, what do we upgrade and how would that work?

 

For me, IF we want to go all in, we need at least 3 guys.  2 wingers and a Dman.  Guys I would target are as follows:

 

Lawson Crouse - perfect player to compliment Miller and Boeser and a major upgrade on PDG

Andrew Peeke - defensive Dman who can play up and down the lineup.  Massive upgrade on Juulsen

 

Other players I’d look at:

 

Trent Frederic

Brandon Carlo

Yakov Trenin

Alexis Lafreniere 

Nico Sturm

Garnet Hathaway

Kasperi Kapanen

Robert Bortuzzo

Mason Appleton

Dylan Demelo

 

What would it take to get some of these guys?  Would you give up the 2024 1st, Vasili Podkolzin, Nils Höglander?  

 

IMO, Jonathan Lekkerimaki and Tom Willander are untouchable.  Everyone else however could be on the table depending on the offer…

So far this team has been patient (new management).   Made improvements, got a gem in Kuzmenko etc.   But will need to pick a lane soon.    Don't be shocked to see them trade a first rounder to do just that this season.  Or  a couple of  seconds.    It hinges on you too... maybe by Christmas enough is done to convince you to re-sign? 10.75 x 8 full protection ? 

[Breadnbutta]

If this team does take the next step.

 

Will people give JR, PA and Co the respect they deserve or will they say they inherited the core from JB?

 

I remember when Gillis took the giant leap to contender many downplayed his accomplishments, saying that he inherited Burke and Nonis' core.

 

Either way, I love the synergy from management to the coaching staffs all the way down to the 4th line in ABBOTSFORD.

 

This franchise is finally turning the corner it looks like.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Breadnbutta

[AatuD2]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

1st + for a top 4 defenceman at the deadline like Hanifin or Pesce.

 

If the dman is 25 and under? Sure 

 

[AatuD2]

8 minutes ago, Breadnbutta said:

If this team does take the next step.

 

Will people give JR, PA and Co the respect they deserve or will they say they inherited the core from JB?

 

I remember when Gillis took the giant leap to contender many downplayed his accomplishments, saying that he inherited Burke and Nonis' core.

 

Either way, I love the synergy from management to the coaching staffs all the way down to the 4th line in ABBOTSFORD.

 

This franchise is finally turning the corner it looks like.

 

Agreed on the synergy that extends out to Jeremy Colliton and Ryan Johnson down in Abby! 

 

I'm not a huge fan of crediting, discrediting managers.  

 

Gillis was brought in to put the team over the top and it has to be acknowledged that he did that despite the results. We were the best team in the league by for for a good three year stretch, and that's all you can ask for. Need a lot of luck to win it all in hockey too with injuries and unpredictability of the sport that doesn't use a ball and has a playing surface that changes as the game goes along.  

 

I do also find it odd that people try to discredit Benning for drafting a franchise center and a franchise dman. I'm sorry but any pick after the 1st overall becomes highly volatile. I have no time for people telling me that Petey and Quinn were no-brainers at 5th and 7th overall with the magic powers of hindsight. 

 

I love the management that we have in place now, and I hope that Jeremy Colliton is willing to stick it out for another year. We may have to dangle a promotion to him for 2024-25 though or he may leave for a bigger opportunity. 

[BPA]

I’d just target a Defenceman like Peeke.  Juulsen is better served as a 7th D at this point.  
 

PDG is doing well enough to earn his keep and his cap hit only $775k.

 

It’s Garland and Beau that currently aren’t earning their keep if they don’t play with EP.  But I’d keep Garland over Beau.  Garland seems to have more snarl and something to prove.

 

Kuz EP Garland

PDG Miller Boes

Mik Suter Hogs

Joshua Blueger Laff

Studs 

[Jeremy Hronek]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We just beat one of the Stanley Cup favourites in back to back games.  Our team looks good.  Our team defence looks great.  Our goaltending looks all worldly.  We are still missing Mikheyev, Blueger and Soucy.  Add those 3 players to the lineup and we are 100% a playoff team.

 

So, the question becomes how far can we go with this current team?  Can we win a round in the playoffs?  With our goaltending and team defence I would say yes.  So, how far do we really want to go?  Can we actually improve our team enough this year to win it all?

 

I look at this team and see two complete lines:

 

Kuzmenko    Pettersson     Mikheyev

Joshua         Blueger          Lafferty

 

I wouldn’t touch those lines.  1st line and 4th line are complete.  Our second line looks good too:

 

PDG     Miller    Boeser 

 

I like PDG and we usually need to have an Italian in the lineup.  However, in order to win it all we probably need an upgrade on him.

 

Our 3rd line is the biggest problem:

 

Beauvillier/Höglander    Suter     Garland

 

Our 3rd line is too small to be a powerful checking line and not good enough to be a true scoring line.  I like Suter, he is fine as a 3C but we need to upgrade the wingers.  Garland and Beauviller take up $9.1 million in cap space.  Oh my. That’s insane.  Imagine what we could get for $9.1 million?

 

How about our defence?  Hughes and Hronek are elite.  Ian Cole is very good defensively. Soucy is big and strong and will be great on the 3rd pairing in the playoffs.  That leaves Myers and Juulsen.  Juulsen is not an NHL defenceman. Myers is frustrating to watch but has the tools to be effective if he wants to be.

 

Hughes    Hronek

Cole         Myers

Soucy      Juulsen

 

In order to be a cup contender we definitely have to upgrade on Juulsen.  

 

And finally the goalies.  Yes, our backup goalie would be the starter in Edmonton.  We are good to go with the goalies.  We could win the cup with them.

 

Demko    DeSmith

 

So, do we go all in?  If so, what do we upgrade and how would that work?

 

For me, IF we want to go all in, we need at least 3 guys.  2 wingers and a Dman.  Guys I would target are as follows:

 

Lawson Crouse - perfect player to compliment Miller and Boeser and a major upgrade on PDG

Andrew Peeke - defensive Dman who can play up and down the lineup.  Massive upgrade on Juulsen

 

Other players I’d look at:

 

Trent Frederic

Brandon Carlo

Yakov Trenin

Alexis Lafreniere 

Nico Sturm

Garnet Hathaway

Kasperi Kapanen

Robert Bortuzzo

Mason Appleton

Dylan Demelo

 

What would it take to get some of these guys?  Would you give up the 2024 1st, Vasili Podkolzin, Nils Höglander?  

 

IMO, Jonathan Lekkerimaki and Tom Willander are untouchable.  Everyone else however could be on the table depending on the offer…

 

Still *way* too early to entertain these thoughts.  It would be like if I began a marathon and was ahead of a few guys from Nigeria or Kenya after 600 meters and started having "fantasies" about qualifying for the Boston Marathon. 

 

If we are still killing it after 20-25 games, THEN I would start "warming up the boner" so to speak.  

 

p.s. - As far as your package goes, would a guy like Tom Wilson fit the bill?  (assuming that Washington starts shitting the bed and choose to rebuild).  Brandon Carlo would also be of interest to me but would Boston part ways with him?  

 

Maybe this regime targets Paul Coffey?  

 

 

 

[Slegr]

I agree that the players identified are the 'weak links'. But even if we do replacement them (which we hopefully will do eventually), we don't have much in the way of depth, and we know how the injury bug can hamper this team. Still, it's great to see that we're becoming a fairly well rounded team, with some good structure to it.

[Coconuts]

It's two games.. let's see how things play out. Injuries could devastate the lineup, players could fail, meet, or exceed expectations, and there are better teams out there than Edmonton. Things went well for two games, let's see if it's a theme that continues.

[RawkDrummer]

it's been 2 games, long ways to go.

[The Social Hermit]

It’s not a matter of “going all in”, it’s a matter of continually improving and not ever being content. I agree we still need a top 6 winger and a top 4 defenseman. And we should be trying to land these pieces. If we get them now, great. If we get them later in the season or next season, that works too. The big thing first is to get rid of Garland and Beauvillier’s cap hit.

[Miss Korea]

I was 99% certain he'd spin this into a Pesce/Peeke proposal but now I'm questioning my own judgment.

[Sherwood]

You’re bang on re. what’s needed next…

• Top 4 RHD - do we make a big swing (ie. trade a first), or take on a project?
• 3rd line wingers with skill/size- Are we trying to clear $1-2M to sign Comtois?

In the off-season PA said they wouldn’t trade a 1st for a 30 year old player. IMHO, this is key to answer this proposed debate. 

 

The short answer is ‘no,’ we shouldn’t go all in. That said, we are probably close enough to trade a significant asset(s) for another prime-aged top 4 D like Hronek.

[Johnny]

I would be ok with figuring out how to get rid of Garland even if it cost a bit. He infuriates me with his spinning. I dont think Tocchet likes him either

 

using the 2024 first rounder or even 2 second rounders to grab a solid 4-6 dman who keeps it simple, preferably a right side guy

[Dude]

2 hours ago, SV. said:

Actually, I'll come back to this and say the Canucks might have no choice but to go all-in before OEL's buyout takes a huge portion of money out of our structure.

It will take some of the cap.The cap is going up and Myers 6 mill is coming off the books.Not great but yes  having no OEL buy out plus 6 million  and a cap increase would be optimal.Thank you Jim B is all one can say.