[Rumour] Canucks looking to move Beauvillier?

[N4ZZY]

27 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

I like him. He works hard and he adds a sandpaper element that our team doesn't have too much of. Could he score more? Of course he could, but getting rid of him COULD make the team better, or it could make it worse. If the cap hit is not a concern at this time, there is no need to get rid of him, considering how good the team is doing.  He seems like a likable guy as well.

 

I agree that Garland has been playing really well lately. Been effective on the forecheck with Joshua and Blueger. 

 

[Coconuts]

31 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I always view Boes as part of the core of players in Vancouver. He's added multiple layers to his game this season and his shot looks pretty lethal once again. I, too, think Kuzmenko might be the player that could be the best trade chip, especially in returning a top 4D with some size. 

True. Shoring up the defense would help to balance out the scoring issue.

I think Hoglander is prime for it. Garland has been a firecracker out there. 

Agreed. You tend to make sense more often than not, Coconuts. 

 

I recall arguing that we should consider selling high on Kuzmenko last season, the caveat to this is I thought he'd command more and I'm pretty sure Bruce was still coaching at the time so I was arguing for selling/tanking moves. But it could still be a good idea, the angle would just be a bit different this time. Kuzmenko scored almost 40 goals last season and has a 5.5M cap hit, he hasn't been scoring like that this season but his production is recent enough that it could still sway teams to acquire him.

 

His shooting percentage was bound to dip but he should probably be scoring more than he has thus far. I think he's an excellent trade chip that several teams could fit in. 

 

I'm generally not a fan of acquiring players in their late 20's and I'm still not entirely sold on him being the right fit, but a trade that could happen could be something alongside Kuzmenko for pending UFA Pesce. Or maybe Pesce+. His cap hit is a reasonable 4Mish and Carolina has the cap space take Kuzmenko's deal.

 

Why do they do this? Well, they're an average scoring team despite their 7th ranked powerplay. They're 16th in goals scored. A caveat to this is they've also been an uncharacteristically middling team defensively, but it could be they'd rather get something for Pesce. 

 

Any such deal would likely require an extension from Pesce but then you have a longer-term outlook of Hughes, Hronek, and Pesce with all other D on shorter term deals. If they want Hronek with Hughes they could certainly do worse. 

 

At the end of the day Kuzmenko is likely a lot easier to move than either Garland or Beauvillier. 

 

Maybe bumping up Hoglander would give us more, maybe Garland would thrive with increased offensive opportunities. Hard to say.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Coconuts

[canuck73_3]

54 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

5mil is reasonable at his pace for 20points?? You can find players just as effective in his role for way cheaper if all you are looking for is 20 points..

 

he’s prolly the worse pt per salary player on the team if not the worse 

He's had no less than 39 points in 5 seasons and 46 and 52 points the last 2 and he's streaky, he went through stretches with little points last year too but he's always a solid worker.

[Rekker]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

He's had no less than 39 points in 5 seasons and 46 and 52 points the last 2 and he's streaky, he went through stretches with little points last year too but he's always a solid worker.

He is a hard worker for sure and throws himself into the battles with full force. I don't think it's hockey sense that holds him back as he seems to be in the right places at the right times. I think it's his hands that hold him back.

[wai_lai416]

20 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

He's had no less than 39 points in 5 seasons and 46 and 52 points the last 2 and he's streaky, he went through stretches with little points last year too but he's always a solid worker.

he feast on bad teams majority of his points are against bad teams over his career, there's no denying he works hard.. but there are plenty of players in the league that works as hard as he does and eat no where close to 5mil in cap space. he's also a -15 last season again playoff bound teams. so those team must have figured out how to play against him. 

[canuck73_3]

26 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

he feast on bad teams majority of his points are against bad teams over his career, there's no denying he works hard.. but there are plenty of players in the league that works as hard as he does and eat no where close to 5mil in cap space. he's also a -15 last season again playoff bound teams. so those team must have figured out how to play against him. 

No, he's just streaky no different than last season or any other one and his ability to draw penalties is almost worth it alone. 

[J-23]

15 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

 

 

Send Kuzmenko & Garland back to make the money work.

 

Kuzmenko is as incomplete a player as Laine while not being nearly as good an offensive player. Put Laine with Petey & he could be absolutely dynamite. He could score 50 with how great a shooter he is, Kuzmenko isn't a shooter.

 

 

Move Kuzmenko and Garland in the off-season to sign Stamkos.

 

If he goes to free agency and wants to come home to Canada...

 

Hoglander - Pettersson - Stamkos

Mikheyev - Miller - Boeser

 

These things don't usually happen to Vancouver though.

[JayDangles]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

he feast on bad teams majority of his points are against bad teams over his career, there's no denying he works hard.. but there are plenty of players in the league that works as hard as he does and eat no where close to 5mil in cap space. he's also a -15 last season again playoff bound teams. so those team must have figured out how to play against him. 

I mean, the same could be said about Petterson. If you look at his career he scores way more against weaker opponents. But points are points in the NHL.

[The Lock]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

he feast on bad teams majority of his points are against bad teams over his career, there's no denying he works hard.. but there are plenty of players in the league that works as hard as he does and eat no where close to 5mil in cap space. he's also a -15 last season again playoff bound teams. so those team must have figured out how to play against him. 

 

I thought this is how scoring worked in general. Seems more logical for me for any player to score on the weaker teams more because they're... well.. weaker.

 

So is it a better strategy to score more points on the better teams and then lose to the weaker teams?

 

Then you go and talk about -15 against playoff bound teams... while we had a non-playoff team. Again, this is what anyone should expect to happen....

 

So basically, he's a normal hockey player?

Edited November 22, 2023 by The Lock

[Biff Tannen]

15 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

 

 

Send Kuzmenko & Garland back to make the money work.

 

Kuzmenko is as incomplete a player as Laine while not being nearly as good an offensive player. Put Laine with Petey & he could be absolutely dynamite. He could score 50 with how great a shooter he is, Kuzmenko isn't a shooter.

 

 

Hmmm, no.

 

Personally I don't think there's much difference between Kuz and Laine, even if there is it has to be pretty massive to justify $3.2m more. If Kuz isn't a shooter scoring 39 goals in his first season in the NHL is f-ing impressive (even taking in to account his abnormal shooting percentage and elite linemates). At this point both Garland and Kuzmenko are probably slightly under performing relative to their contracts, but no where near as bad as Laine. Personally I think Kuzmenko is attempting to adapt to his role and once he becomes more comfortable he'll start getting more points, I'm not so sure Laine would even try.

 

Is Laine worth $700,000 more than Miller?

[Biff Tannen]

I made the mistake of clicking on this 'article' as I thought there might be some interesting context.

 

https://thecanuckway.com/2023/11/22/happened-vancouver-canucks-andrei-kuzmenko/

 

I was wrong, please don't click the link it's just here for attribution. This is the entire text.

 

Quote

What happened to Vancouver Canucks’ Andrei Kuzmenko?

If there’s one Vancouver Canucks player – a forward – that’s having a slow start, there’s one name that takes the cake.

 

Andrei Kuzmenko – a player who scored 39 goals on 27% shooting last season – has just three goals in 18 games this season. Of course, 27% was never going to be sustainable, and is largely just a one-off thing. Still, the 27-year-old is firing at a respectable 11.1% clip this season.

 

The problem, though, is that there are eight Canucks players with more goals than Kuzmenko to this point, and five of those eight have double Kuzmenko’s total or more.

Despite having played on a line with Elias Pettersson and Ilya Mikheyev – and previously Conor Garland – Kuzmenko is ninth on the Vancouver Canucks in shots on goal. Effectively, the Russian sharpshooter hasn’t played much of an active role when it comes to producing offense.

 

After all, Kuzmenko is still ninth in the NHL in shooting talent above average, per MoneyPuck. Pettersson, Leon Draisaitl, Mikko Rantanen, and David Pastrnak are amongst the eight names that rank ahead of Kuzmenko.

 

As far as goals above shooting talent goes, Kuzmenko is currently rocking a minus-2 in that department. Effectively, No. 96 isn’t finishing his chances as efficiently as he should be, based on past precedent.

 

Indeed, Kuzmenko scored at a rate higher than 1-in-4 last season, but even then, five goals in 18 games – compared to three – is still fairly modest.

Head coach Rick Tocchet said recently that “Kuzy needs to start playing harder,” so there could be a suite of different factors at play here. Tocchet didn’t take over until late last season, and confidence could be low, among other things.

 

If the Vancouver Canucks wish to carry their hot start all the way until the end of the season, they’re going to need more from Kuzmenko. A lot of that responsibility lies with Tocchet, as well.

 

 

[BPA]

Apparently Taylor has an injury and his season is done.

 

Perhaps CHI needs some veteran wingers to play with Bedard.  Enter Beau and Garland?

 

 

[Diamonds]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

Apparently Taylor has an injury and his season is done.

 

Perhaps CHI needs some veteran wingers to play with Bedard.  Enter Beau and Garland?

 

 

I'm still up for trading one of Beauvillier or Garland for Connor Murphy

[Grandmaster]

No one is gonna want Beau. Too much Cap for what he gives. 
 

Do agree time for a trade though.
 

We look like on a decline with struggling players and injuries on the back end. I think we can trade Kuzy and get a 3/4 defender. Garland looks very needed in our lineup. Kuzy’s 39 goals last year on a 5M contract would be very appealing for some teams

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Grandmaster

[Coconuts]

20 hours ago, J-23 said:

 

Move Kuzmenko and Garland in the off-season to sign Stamkos.

 

If he goes to free agency and wants to come home to Canada...

 

Hoglander - Pettersson - Stamkos

Mikheyev - Miller - Boeser

 

These things don't usually happen to Vancouver though.

 

Even if he doesn't extend with the Bolts I'd be a bit surprised if he came west tbh 

 

I think more than likely they find a way to get it done in Tampa, he's still very productive and there's the legacy aspect for both sides

[Elias Pettersson]

Höglander can replace Beauvillier in the lineup at a fraction of the cost. We neeed more truculence and size in the bottom 6. 
 

We should go after Sean Kuraly in Columbus. He’d be perfect for our 3rd/4th line. 

[DrJockitch]

Ugh so Kuzmenko is the target for this years group think hate. 

[Coconuts]

15 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Ugh so Kuzmenko is the target for this years group think hate. 

 

It's not hate, it's simply easier to move players with larger cap hits who have positive value. Gotta give to get. 

 

Edit: Well, maybe hate for some folks. But I view him as positive value despite his goal scoring struggles this season. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Coconuts

[Grandmaster]

20 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Ugh so Kuzmenko is the target for this years group think hate. 

No hate. I love the guy. Who wouldn’t? The guy always has a big smile and seems to be the ultimate team guy. 
 

It’s just that we need a desperate upgrade with our defence and I don’t want to throw away a 1st. Rather send a struggling forward who can get us something good. You have to give something good to get something good. We desperately need a 3/4 defender asap.

 

Edit: Would you rather trade a first?

Edited November 23, 2023 by Grandmaster

[BC_Hawk]

25 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Höglander can replace Beauvillier in the lineup at a fraction of the cost. We neeed more truculence and size in the bottom 6. 
 

We should go after Sean Kuraly in Columbus. He’d be perfect for our 3rd/4th line. 

A bigger player in the Top 6 would be HUGELY beneficial also. Watching how the Avs use their size in front of the net made me envious. God I wish Podz could find his game!

[R3aL]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:39 AM, Coconuts said:

 

I recall arguing that we should consider selling high on Kuzmenko last season, the caveat to this is I thought he'd command more and I'm pretty sure Bruce was still coaching at the time so I was arguing for selling/tanking moves. But it could still be a good idea, the angle would just be a bit different this time. Kuzmenko scored almost 40 goals last season and has a 5.5M cap hit, he hasn't been scoring like that this season but his production is recent enough that it could still sway teams to acquire him.

 

His shooting percentage was bound to dip but he should probably be scoring more than he has thus far. I think he's an excellent trade chip that several teams could fit in. 

 

I'm generally not a fan of acquiring players in their late 20's and I'm still not entirely sold on him being the right fit, but a trade that could happen could be something alongside Kuzmenko for pending UFA Pesce. Or maybe Pesce+. His cap hit is a reasonable 4Mish and Carolina has the cap space take Kuzmenko's deal.

 

Why do they do this? Well, they're an average scoring team despite their 7th ranked powerplay. They're 16th in goals scored. A caveat to this is they've also been an uncharacteristically middling team defensively, but it could be they'd rather get something for Pesce. 

 

Any such deal would likely require an extension from Pesce but then you have a longer-term outlook of Hughes, Hronek, and Pesce with all other D on shorter term deals. If they want Hronek with Hughes they could certainly do worse. 

 

At the end of the day Kuzmenko is likely a lot easier to move than either Garland or Beauvillier. 

 

Maybe bumping up Hoglander would give us more, maybe Garland would thrive with increased offensive opportunities. Hard to say.

I feel like Kuzmenko had a weird start to the season being sick, and petey himself has been very off and mikehyev coming back from the knee injury.

 

 

the whole line has had some struggles.

 

But if you look at their points, if this is what they are doing when they are off / slumping that’s pretty good.

 

kuzmenko has had some games where he’s had some bad puck luck too. The NYR game I couldn’t believe he didn’t score.

 

they are 1-2 week hot stretch away from changing any negative conversation about the line.

 

im confident in that line turning things around this season and kuzmenko having a hot streak or two that changes his stat lines  quickly.

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, R3aL said:

I feel like Kuzmenko had a weird start to the season being sick, and petey himself has been very off and mikehyev coming back from the knee injury.

 

 

the whole line has had some struggles.

 

But if you look at their points, if this is what they are doing when they are off / slumping that’s pretty good.

 

kuzmenko has had some games where he’s had some bad puck luck too. The NYR game I couldn’t believe he didn’t score.

 

they are 1-2 week hot stretch away from changing any negative conversation about the line.

 

im confident in that line turning things around this season and kuzmenko having a hot streak or two that changes his stat lines  quickly.

 

Even so, if we're looking to upgrade our D it's easier to move out a contract with positive value in a hockey trade. We're also more likely to get a top 4D back for either Boeser of Kuzmenko. 

 

I'd rather trade positive value than pay to dump neutral or negative value.

[Smashian Kassian]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:11 AM, canuck73_3 said:

Wouldn't take Laine for free at this point let alone give up 2 very useful pieces for him. 

 

 

Really? If $$$ was equal I'd take him over Kuz. Guys a potential game breaker & we could use another one of those in our forward group.

 

The last 2 years he's scored at. 35 goal / 79 point pace, that's with guys like Jenner & Roslovic as his C (or him playing C).

 

20 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

 

Hmmm, no.

 

Personally I don't think there's much difference between Kuz and Laine, even if there is it has to be pretty massive to justify $3.2m more. If Kuz isn't a shooter scoring 39 goals in his first season in the NHL is f-ing impressive (even taking in to account his abnormal shooting percentage and elite linemates). At this point both Garland and Kuzmenko are probably slightly under performing relative to their contracts, but no where near as bad as Laine. Personally I think Kuzmenko is attempting to adapt to his role and once he becomes more comfortable he'll start getting more points, I'm not so sure Laine would even try.

 

Is Laine worth $700,000 more than Miller?

 

Kuz just doesn't shoot the puck much, it's not that he doesn't have a good shot he's just more of a playmaking winger. He did score alot last year as a huge shooting percentage, but look at his shooting #'s compared to Laine;

 

Example this season:

Kuz - 19 games, 28 shots on goal / 66 attempts

Laine - 10 games, 24 shots on goal / 51 attempts

 

Last season:

Kuz - 81 games / 143 shots on goal / 276 attempts

Laine - 55 games / 184 shots on goal / 359 attempts

 

To me it's just a playstyle thing with Kuz, he's not a natural trigger man like that & he doesn't have separation speed to hold onto pucks as much as you'd like for a playmaker.

 

Maybe I'm on an Island here but I just think Laine could be a huge weapon for Petey, and his shot is such a weapon if teams defend that heavily it gives Petey more time+space.

 

$$$ is what it is. Might be able to make it work by sending a few contracts out or with retention

[R3aL]

23 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Even so, if we're looking to upgrade our D it's easier to move out a contract with positive value in a hockey trade. We're also more likely to get a top 4D back for either Boeser of Kuzmenko. 

 

I'd rather trade positive value than pay to dump neutral or negative value.

I understand, but even with a healthy Mikehyev, a rebounded / healthy boeser and Kuzmenko playing well we are still an impact winger away.

 

If we subtract Kuz are we going to replace him with a better player?

 

I know we need to acquire another top 4 D but I am not sure if subtracting one of our impact wingers will be enough to acquire that type of dman that ultimately helps us improve overall.

 

Especially if that dman is Pesce who I am not keen on.

 

Id honestly expect this management group to find a value add dman for depth, sign a UFA dman and make our big ticket acquisition an impact winger to add to the group.

 

We will see what they do!

 

Right now I am curious very what happens with Beauvillier / Hoglander / Garland / Myers / Bear and our 1st round pick.

 

I dont think they will trade Boeser or Kuzmenko but who knows maybe they find a move that really makes sense. I just dont think Pesce is our guy.

[Coconuts]

Just now, R3aL said:

I understand, but even with a healthy Mikehyev, a rebounded / healthy boeser and Kuzmenko playing well we are still an impact winger away.

 

If we subtract Kuz are we going to replace him with a better player?

 

I know we need to acquire another top 4 D but I am not sure if subtracting one of our impact wingers will be enough to acquire that type of dman that ultimately helps us improve overall.

 

Especially if that dman is Pesce who I am not keen on.

 

Id honestly expect this management group to find a value add dman for depth, sign a UFA dman and make our big ticket acquisition an impact winger to add to the group.

 

We will see what they do!

 

Right now I am curious very what happens with Beauvillier / Hoglander / Garland / Myers / Bear and our 1st round pick.

 

I dont think they will trade Boeser or Kuzmenko but who knows maybe they find a move that really makes sense. I just dont think Pesce is our guy.

 

This season? Probably not. In general? Maybe not. But it's easier to acquire top six wingers than it is to acquire top 4RD. 

 

Maybe not, but gotta give to get and I view both Boeser and Kuzmenko as being positive value. May need to be a larger trade but I think we could swap a winger for a top 4D and then poke around UFA for a forward. Or try to promote from within.

 

Thing about UFA RD, or top 4D in general, is they're always in demand. Lot of teams go after D via UFA because all it costs them is cap space and term. Trading for a D on the other hand, that guarantees we get one whereas bidding on a player in UFA could still result in them choosing to go elsewhere. 

 

Hopefully nothing in regards to our 1st. I think Garland stays at this point, Beau maybe gets dumped or walks via UFA. I could see Myers signing an extension at a smaller cap hit. Not really sold on Bear but maybe they find room. Don't see him as more than a 5-6D though. 

 

Maybe Pesce isn't, I'm not hellbent on it being him, but I am open to moving a top six forward to bolster our D in general.